conflict but in the event he should become a prisoner or any other situation in which he, as an individual, might become involved? General SHOUP. Yes, sir, and I will say that I do not think at that time and in that short period of time that the young men absorb all that they should. We continue this education right on through. We do not stop at the recruit training depot. Senator SALTONSTALL. So that the spirit of a marine as developed today is built on the constant instruction of what a man should be to be a good marine? General SHOUP. Yes, sir. RECORD OF MARINES IN KOREA Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, we were very proud, and I think every citizen was, of the way that the individual marines conducted themselves when they came out of Korea down the coast from the Yalu River. Were there any marines taken prisoner at that time? General SHOUP. There were some marines taken prisoner in Korea, yes, sir. I do not know whether they were taken prisoner, but some were missing in that march. Senator SALTONSTALL. Were there any marines among those who yielded to Communist indoctrination? General SHOUP. There were no marine defectors to the Communist side. Senator SALTONSTALL. So that we can give credit to the continuous training of a marine that makes it possible for him to understand how he should behave himself as a prisoner? General SHOUP. We believe very deeply that that is what causes marines to do as they do in battle and under the circumstances they found themselves in the prison camps. RECRUITS TODAY LACK KNOWLEDGE OF COUNTRY AND PROPER ATTITUDE Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, do you find any differences today in the boys that enter the service as compared to those who entered 20, 30, or 40 years ago? Do they have a different point of view, perhaps, a more careless point of view, or an unpatriotic point of view than when you went into the marines? General SHOUP. Our observations run about like this: They are the same kind of human beings, but they have not been exposed to what this country means and what it took to make this country what it is today. They have not been given a realization of the worthwhileness of our way of life and that it is worth giving your life for if necessary. We try to indoctrinate them in and show them what sacrifices have been made by our ancestors in order that we can live the way we live today and grow up in the kind of atmosphere in which they grew up. A few of them are well, I suppose it is very much like as long as you have good health, you do not think anything about sickness. But no one has really taught them what this country is all about. I do not say this 100 percent, but a tremendous number of boys begin to get pretty wide eyed when they find out that there have been life. We try to explain that to them, and particularly we feel this way, Senator, that No. 1, we do not want all these young boys to stay in the Marine Corps forever. So we take the attitude that we want to send them back to civil life a better citizen, so our instruction is headed in that direction, that when this boy goes out of the Marine Corps, he will go back a better citizen for his country. Senator SALTONSTALL. We respect you on this committee, I am sure, you will remember. Is there any recommendation this committee could make that might improve the mental attitudes of the young person entering the service today? General SHOUP. I believe it is a difficult question, but I made the observation the other day without checking too carefully, which I should not have done. But, for example, I go back to the boys that were with me in school, when they read such things as the boy who carried the wolf in his stomach and he got there whether he tore his guts out or not. Those things made impressions on us. It made us feel there was some worthwhileness in sticking to your job and accomplishing something and dependability. Somehow or other these boys have not gotten that idea totally as I thought we got it when I was a child. It is difficult to transpose yourself from your childhood to this child, because in those days I was thinking with a childish mind and now I am looking at this boy with an adult mind. But I just do not feel they have this idea with the desire to win, the desire to improve themselves, the desire to be ready to fight for their country and their way of life, that they have not been properly educated into the differences of the ideologies and the differences in the kinds of governments under which they might live and the difference between what this country is compared to others in the world. I get that feeling from the boys that come into our recruit depot. I do not mean 100 percent of them, Senator, but a very high percent. Senator SALTONSTALL. That is a job then for every thinking American citizen? General SHOUP. Yes, sir. Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, General. Senator STENNIS. Thank you, Senator. KNOWLEDGE OF ENEMY IS NECESSARY Senator THURMOND. General Shoup, while we all agree that we should never attempt to inspire hate in our fellow man, do you not agree that it is necessary to teach an understanding of the enemy and that this might well instill an intense distaste, if not even hate, not for other men, but certainly for the tenets and concepts of communism? General SHOUP. That was a pretty long question. I think I will answer the first part yes, that I do believe they must be taught. I do believe that there is a time, perhaps, that we will not have to teach hate. Let us put it this way. There is a time in close combat where you have seen some enemy kill your buddy or you have already gotten a shot in your own shoulder. That is a time when perhaps hate comes to the fore and is of some benefit. But other than that, on a permanent basis, it is nothing but poison. It is absolutely poison. While we all agree that we should never attempt to inspire hate for any fellow man, do you not agree that it is necessary to teach an understanding of the enemy and that this might well instill an intense distaste, if not even hate, not for other men but for the tenets and concepts of communism? General SHOUP. Well, there are actually three questions, I believe. The first one: Yes, sir, we have to teach them. Secondly: Distaste for anything that is going to cause us to lose our way of life. If some one can get so engendered with distaste that he wants to define it as hate, I guess you would have to say that. But to try to say that he can be taught that is very difficult. We are in a bunch of semantics now, but I agree, absolutely, that it is distasteful and we teach them that. We teach them how distasteful it might be if we had to subject ourselves to the Communist idea. We give them examples. And as a system, I suppose you might be able to say that it is so distasteful to them that they hate it, hate the system, but not the people who are engulfed in the system. Senator THURMOND. Do you consider communism a subject that falls in the class of partisan politics? General SHOUP. I do not see how it could when that is the declared enemy of our total country. I do not see how it could be partisan politics. Senator THURMOND. So anyone who is telling the troops or telling civilians about communism is not participating in partisan politics; is he? General SHOUP. If it is part of his function to do that, I would say Senator THURMOND. Whether it is his function or not, is teaching about communism, about the enemy, is that partisan polítics? General SHOUP. I do not think so. Senator THURMOND. Is it foreign policy? Senator THURMOND. Is it national policy? General SHOUP. Is it national policy? Senator THURMOND. Is it national policy? General SHOUP. To teach about communism? I do not follow the question now. Senator THURMOND. Do you think it would be against the foreign policy of this Nation or against any national policy that you know of this Nation to teach the troops or inform civilians about the enemy, communism? General SHOUP. It certainly is not for the troops and it certainly is not for the public, inasmuch as my Commander in Chief has described our enemies and given it the word, the name "communism." Senator THURMOND. Therefore, you would see no objection, then, if one taught the troops or informed the civilians about communism, the enemy, would you? General SHOUP. We do teach the troops and we do, as far as I know, teach them if they want to know. I could show you that I do the same thing, but I just do not name it. General SHOUP. No, but I would like for you to listen to an extract from one of my talks if you would like to. Senator THURMOND. Go ahead. General SHOUP (reading): Today our country stands as acknowledged leader of the free world. The fate of western civilization rests in large measure in our hands. Two diametrically opposed ideologies are in essential conflict. Whether these two factions can coexist or whether they will some day collide in a war of chaotic proportions is the burning question. To meet this challenge will take all the wits and patience and guts that we can muster. I think that points-that is a public address, Senator, and I think that points the public's eye Senator THURMOND. That is a good statement. Would there be any objection if you said it was communism? General SHOUP. I do not think so. Senator THURMOND. Thank you. General SHOUP. I might even have said it myself, but I just did not happen to. Senator THURMOND. Some of the outstanding military people in this country, as well as civilian leaders, have said that we are in a total war, political war, an economic war, psychological war, a diplomatic war, and a global war. Do you agree with that concept, that we are at war? General SHOUP. I do not think there is any doubt about it, that we are in a conflict. The connotation of the word "war"-that is, in the minds of the generations living today-is one that can hardly be reconciled with not shooting. That is one of our difficulties, Senator. Senator THURMOND. This is a cold war we are speaking of? General SHOUP. That is right. We have got to get the public to understand that you can fight without shooting. We may have to shoot but many, many, many of the things in this cold war-your best term, I guess, is war-but we do not understand that we are at war, that this is a war, that it is a war against an ideology and an organization that has declared that they will engulf us. Now, we have not, in my opinion, gotten that sufficiently over to the public. Senator THURMOND. You recall the statement, I believe of Mr. Malik, in 1954, when he said "We are at war with you." So they evidently consider they are at war with us, too, do they not? General SHOUP. I think you are absolutely right. Senator THURMOND. General Shoup, a recent survey showed a high percent of high school students found nothing wrong with Marxist tenet "from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs." Some of these same high school students must surely become marines. Do you see any need for educational efforts by the Marines to provide the basis for a conclusion that this Marxist tenet is false? General SHOUP. This Marxist tenet was taught to the children in the schools? Senator THURMOND. I did not say it was taught. I just said a survey found that that was the case and I am just wondering if you see any need for educational efforts to provide a basis for a conclusion that this is false; in other words, to give them indoctrination General SHOUP. I assure you every marine will get it whether he has had that kind of instruction outside the Marine Corps or not. MARINE POW'S (COLONEL SCHWABLE) AND KNOWLEDGE OF COMMUNISM Senator THURMOND. General Shoup, in the Korean war, some Marine Corps soldiers were captured by the enemy. Some of these men were later to be found deficient in the knowledge of communism, which handicapped them in resisting Communist interrogation and indoctrination. Perhaps the most outstanding example of this was the Marine Corps flyer, Colonel Schwable. The Defense publication POW, which has been supplied the committee, dated April 1955, which I have in my hand here, states "Some of the POW's, among them men who became defectors had heard of communism only as a name. Many had never before heard of Karl Marx and here was communism held up as the salvation of the world and Marx as mankind's benefactor." Do you feel, in view of our experiences, that it is essential that we indoctrinate the people of this country not only the troops but the would-be troops and the civilians generally, that the aim of the Communists is to dominate the world, that they should be informed about the designs and aims of communism and the nature of communism, the programs of communism? Do you feel that is important? NO OBJECTION TO CONTENT OF CERTAIN CHANGES Senator THURMOND. I want to read you a statement that was contained in an officer's speech, a military officer's speech: History is crowding us once again. Its course is no longer to be taken for granted. Powerful outpourings are entering the stream from new and hostile sources on the darkened sides of the earth. At such a time, there is an advantage in having a long memory. We of the war generation have better reason than most to know that no good man can safely rest, no family can feel rightfully secure, no society can consider its duties fulfilled when its freedom and its ideals are under threat. Do you see any objection to that statement? General SHOUP. I do not know when or where it was given or in what context or what they are trying to do with the speech. But as you read it to me and if I heard all of it correctly, I do not see anything wrong with it. To whom was he going to give the speech? Five-year-old kids or VFW? Senator THURMOND. Well, General, regardless of whom it would be given, I should imagine you would realize this would be given to adults. I will read it to you again. General SHOUP. Could I be provided with a copy? Senator THURMOND. All right, sir. Suppose you read it and hand it back to me and see if you see any objections to anyone saying that? What is the number of that speech at the top, General! General SHOUP. 158. I think that is a very innocuous statement. Senator THURMOND. You might take this book of speeches that |