But the minute you start destroying initiative, you are not going far in any field. Senator JACKSON. And when a decision has been reached within the Military Establishment, that person should go along with it and should not sabotage it, of course. General TRUDEAU. Correct. ENCOURAGING EXPRESSION OF IDEAS Senator JACKSON. But what concerns me is that we are in a period where we need creative contributions from our men in uniform and we could do a lot more to improve the climate within the services to make it possible for officers to speak up as decisions are made, knowing that they are not going to be penalized or punished at some later date. I have strong feelings about this. I have worked with people in the research and development fields where officers have stood up against everyone in their service and they did so at a great risk. We all know of historic examples. And these officers could be right. General TRUDEAU. Yes, sir. Senator JACKSON. This is so true in science, and I gather you share completely that position. General TRUDEAU. I do, Senator, and I am glad you brought the point out. Senator JACKSON. That is all? Senator STENNIS. Senator, you had 1 more minute. How do you handle this very problem that Senator Jackson has brought up? I think your opinion on that would be very helpful, General Trudeau. General TRUDEAU. The best I can do is by verbal presentation in many of the speeches I make, particularly to our military schools. Senator STENNIS. I mean to your military men. General TRUDEAU. I accent this. And I have in the office, of which Lieutenant Colonel Smith is a part, my technical information and liaison office, what I call an "idea and ingenuity desk." which I am sure the general public does not know about, but we literally plead with our people to send in ideas, and if they have any concern about any repercussions because they have not gone through their chain of command, where you can usually find someone to say "No" on the way up, to send it in, in an anonymous manner, and we will give it the fullest consideration. Senator STENNIS. Are you speaking for your department, if I mav use that term-that may not be the correct one, but you are head of Research and Development? General TRUDEAU. I am speaking for Army Research and Development only. Senator STENNIS. How is that handled in other branches of the military, if you know? General TRUDEAU. Well. I do know that the Chief of Staff and the Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel, but the Chief of Staff in particular. General Decker, has made the point time and again and This is not only military, but it is also the civilian people, the thousands of competent and energetic people we do have in civil service, despite what some people would say otherwise, to come in with suggestions. You may have noted recently, or perhaps not, that last year millions of dollars worth in effort or in supplies were saved by these suggestions, and within the authority given by the Congress certain rewards are given to people to encourage them to make it. Senator STENNIS. All right. Thank you, General, my time is up on that. Senator Smith? Senator SMITH. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. Senator THURMOND. Mr. Chairman, since the compilation of the censored portions of the able general's speeches have been put in the record, and will be available to the press and the public, and in view of the questions that counsel has asked and will ask, I have no questions. Senator STENNIS. Mr. Reporter Senator THURMOND. I wish to thank the distinguished general for his presence here and his testimony. General TRUDEAU. Thank you, Senator. Senator STENNIS. Mr. Reporter, the speeches of General Trudeau have been gone over by the staff. They have all been collected in two compilations. This one is for a certain period. Having come in first, it was put in the record a few minutes ago. Now, at this point in time we will put in the record the additional compilation. Senator Case? Senator CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Trudeau, your statement was impressive, and I personally want to pay tribute to you for that impression you gained as you looked over the Parthenon yesterday morning. That is inspiring to us all, I think, for we do recall that the liberties which we possess throughout the world are due to struggles that have been made by many people over hundreds of years. POLICIES, PROCEDURES AND LEVELS OF REVIEW IN DEPARTMENT OF STATE In the excerpts of your speeches and the illustrations of revisions that have been made, which have been prepared by staff and which have now been placed in the record, I note that in most instances the type of change seems to have been proposed by the State Department. There were a few coordinations, perhaps, made within the Department of Defense, but most of the changes, where the indication is made, seem to have been made by the State Department. In that connection, I want to refer to testimony by Secretary McNamara before the Armed Services Committee last September 6 and 7 at pages 19 and 20 of the hearings. I refer to his statement in which he said: For this reason every speech with foreign policy implications is submitted for comment to the State Department, the agency which has the basic responsibility. And then I said: I think this Committee would be interested in knowing just how far down the chain of command this submission of speeches to the State Department goes. The Secretary said that he would be happy to supply a detailed answer, and that detailed answer was submitted as follows: All speeches submitted to the directorate for security review that discuss foreign policy, whether the speakers are civilian or military and no matter what their grade or rank, are submitted to the Department of State for review. Then I commented: Then I would like to ask if you know who in the State Department has been editing these speeches which have been submitted. The Secretary submitted a more detailed answer subsequently, which reads as follows: Information material referred by the directorate for security review to the State Department for review is directed to the Office of Policy, Plans and Guidance, headed by Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs, Mr. Philip H. Burris, which office is under the Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs, Mr. Roger Tubby. We do not know the exact procedures followed by the State Department or the personnel involved other than the senior officials mentioned. This is an internal State Department matter and, accordingly, we believe that questions concerning it should properly be referred to that Department. Then I asked: Do you know at what level the review in the State Department is made? Secretary MCNAMARA. No, I do not. General Trudeau, in the handling of your speeches, do you know at what level the review in the State Department was made? General TRUDEAU. I do not. Senator CASE. In the comment which you made with respect to a major, possibly, passing upon the speeches made by a general officer, do you feel that the possibility might exist that a relatively low echelon person in the State Department might be the one who had the actual assignment of making the suggestions for changes in your speeches? General TRUDEAU. I would assume this is quite probable, yes. Now, whether he would have the final authority or actually make or propose the deletions and then have the stamp of approval put on it by a higher level, I don't know. But, obviously, no one, I don't suppose, at the relative rank of a senior officer could have this as a primary function to actually do the work of reading all of these many speeches. Senator CASE. Is it not possible that that is a part of the problem in the handling of a great many speeches? General TRUDEAU. I think the problem comes down to the adequacy of the directives that implement the policy established on this, and the related question of, in the absence of directives, does this represent the individual's personal opinion; and, if so, How does this man think? I do not care whether he is a Ph. D. or what he is, as far as that is concerned. How does he think about America? Senator STENNIS. About what? General TRUDEAU. About America, and the basic problem of Senator CASE. The Defense Secretary said that in going over the matter he found that they had reviewed something like 1,500 speeches, involving 30,000 pages, within a year, or possibly less. In the review of that many speeches and every speech, whether by civilian or military, and without regard to their greater rank, if they are submitted to the State Department, is it not entirely possible that many of these mandatory changes, many of these suggestions, may have been made by some individual who has a personal opinion as to policy that conceivably might not be national policy?. General TRUDEAU. This is quite within the realm of possibility, because I note, I note from the evidence that has been released by the committee here, or that has appeared before, that there are not only those of us who are military people involved, but Secretaries of our services like Secretary Zuckert and Secretary Stahr of my own service. So I don't feel that it is limited entirely to just people who happen to wear a uniform, nor do I charge an antipathy by these individuals who do the censorship toward the military. I make no such charge. It can be, but I have no knowledge, and I make no such suggestion even. Senator CASE. If most of these changes which have come to the attention of the committee have been suggested by the State Department, do you see how this committee can carry out its responsibility under the resolution without calling on the State Department to tell us at what level these changes have been suggested? General TRUDEAU. I think that this problem is one that certainly involves the State Department, as well as the Department of Defense, in response to your question. Senator STENNIS. We will call on the State Department, Senator Case, in the course of investigation of these matters, substantial matters, as far as I am concerned. FOREIGN POLICY DIRECTIVES: TRUMAN-KENNEDY-M'NAMARA-GILPATRIC Senator CASE. In your statement at page 6, you referred to a point made by the President when he said: The military have the right and the necessity to express their educated views on some of the great problems that face us around the world. Is it not true, however, that the President has, in effect, continued the directive which was originally made, I believe, by President Truman, in that speeches dealing with policy should be submitted for review? General TRUDEAU. I will put it this way, because it may be a matter that has not come to his attention. The breadth of the President's responsibilities are such that not every matter can come to his attention. Consequently, it may be something that has been inherited. Again, I find criticism of things like this that arise, and sometimes quite rightfully so, and it may be true of other aspects of this investigation, where perhaps the recognition of the need for change has not occurred, or perhaps those who established the old policies, the old procedures, are resistant to change. So, if something like the investigations of this committee bring these problems that may not have been given proper consideration before into focus, then I think the committee can do a very great deal Senator CASE. In a memorandum prepared by the staff for the committee members, attention has been called to an informal reaffirmation by the President of the coordination procedure at a press conference on the 9th of February 1961, when he stated: I would hope that those who make speeches in the area of national security, Chiefs of Staff and all others, would attempt to have those speeches coordinated with the Department of State and with the White House, so that we can make sure that those speeches represent national policy. Now, I do not want to embarrass you, General, as a member of the Military Establishment, by the next reference, but I think for the record it should be put in: That in a television interview on February 16, 1961, Secretary McNamara, in a memorandum made for the committee by the staff, said: A very simply and strongly held belief that it is inappropriate for any member of the Defense Department to speak on the subject of foreign policy, because that is a field that should be reserved for the President, the Secretary of State, and other officials in the State Department. And at a press conference on the 11th of July 1961, Deputy Secretary Gilpatric emphasized this policy by saying: Our policy is that military personnel should in their public appearances stick to the matters within their responsibility. Again, if you prefer not to comment, I am not going to insist on it, but I do suggest that your statement would indicate that you think it is certainly within the responsibility of informed military personnel to comment about the menace of world communism, and give the public the benefit of information which you may have. General TRUDEAU. Communism is not a matter of policy. Communism is a problem. What you do about it becomes policy, and I am not advocating what we do about it. I am only saying let all the American people know of this challenge so that the most intelligent foreign policy possible, backed by the will and determination of our people to meet this challenge, will be a matter of fact. Senator CASE. Deputy Secretary Gilpatric further was quoted as saying: Some members of the Defense Establishment in their speeches do get into matters of foreign policy. We think it is better organization within the Government if we stick to our business. Again, I do not care whether you comment or not; but I do suggest, in bringing it to the attention of the committee, and for the record at this time, that, if we are going to provide some guidelines here, we may have to make some suggestions as to what is "our business-and I put "our business" in quotes-for the Defense Department as distinguished from "matters of foreign policy." General TRUDEAU. I do not believe that there is any example in my speeches where I have advocated anything with respect to foreign policy except the necessity for a dynamic and forward-looking foreign policy. Now, it does not seem to me that that violates any instructions, and I am fully aware of Secretary McNamara's directives and the other references of which you quote, Senator Case. But if the problem of world communism, whether you can discuss it or not, is a matter basically of foreign policy, then we certainly |