Last week there was a memorandum, an intra-Air Force departmental memorandum, submitted to this committee in which one of the generals in effect said that he looked forward eventually to the time when the military would combine with the civilian.

What concerns me is that this may be the attitude within the Air Force.

General LEMNITZER. I haven't seen the memorandum. I don't know what the intentions of the Air Force are.

I think they are in a better position to indicate their intentions than I am.

Mr. RYAN. You keep them under control.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miller.

Mr. MILLER. I just wanted to congratulate the General. It is always good to see him here.

General LEMNITZER. Thank you, Mr. Miller.

Mr. MILLER. He is a top man in my book.

Mr. CHENOWETH. You have indicated a couple of fields that you thought the Army should retain, and you were very much interested in that. What are those?

General LEMNITZER. Communications, primarily.

Mr. CHENOWETH. You feel the Army should remain dominant in the field of communications?

General LEMNITZER. Going outside this directive, I would like to make my position clear.

I happen to be one who believes that those who utilize a weapon in combat on the battle field should have the responsibility for the research and development and the procurement of that weapon, because they have to organize and train units to employ those weapons properly. They have to train their men to employ them properly. This is the normal sequence, and the payoff is the utilization of the weapon in combat.

I believe the Service that uses weapons in combat should be responsible for their research and development, procurement as well as employment.

Mr. CHENOWETH. You feel the Army is making satisfactory progress in the field of communications? You are reasonably well satisfied wieh what is accomplished?

General LEMNITZER. Yes, I am.

Mr. CHENOWETH. You feel the Army is in a position now to do it better than the other branches of the Service in view of their experience?

General LEMNITZER. I may be little bit biased on this. When the last directive came out, I was Chief of Staff of the Army and that may account for my particular interest in this particular area.

I happen to know also the Navy's great interest, and the Navy's great need for navigational assistance. That is why I was interested in these two particular areas.

Mr. CHENOWETH. Thank you, General.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. King.

Mr. KING. General Lemnitzer, following for a moment the interrogation of the gentleman from New York, Mr. Anfuso, if this committee and if Congress should decide to step up the solid fuel propellant testing program, I assume from what you said that there

would be no opposition from the Department of Defense, is that correct?

General LEMNITZER. I don't speak for the entire Department of Defense.

I feel that military requirements in the solid propellant field are very great and very important. I don't believe and I am expressing a personal opinion here that there would be any opposition to stepping up the testing program and making improvements in the field of solid propellants.

Mr. KING. I yield to the gentleman from New York.

Mr. ANFUSO. General, I am concerned with what you said about what the Army is doing in research with respect to communications. I believe that you want to keep that definitely within the Army. We have heard testimony, and I am sure every member will recall this testimony, that this interpretation has been given to the directive:

Research will be left to the three branches. When it comes to development and procurement, that then the Air Force would step in. Would you favor that, if that is the correct interpretation?

General LEMNITZER. I would like to hear the question again, Mr. Anfuso.

Mr. ANFUSO. We have heard testimony that it is the intention of the directive to keep research in the three separate branches. Then after research has been made, when it comes to development and procurement, which would take in the communications that you are talking about, then that would be left to the Air Force?

General LEMNITZER. I believe each Service, all Services have a vital need for communications. I would certainly hate to leave the impression that the Army is the only one that has communications requirements.

I want to make it very clear that communications are the heart of the conduct of military operations by all Services. I think each Service should procure the type of communications systems which it needs to accomplish its mission in combat.

Mr. ANFUSO. General, I want to say now, and I think this is shared by other members, I am just as confused now as I was at the beginning about this directive.

Mr. FULTON. Mr. Chairman

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Mr. Chairman, to follow the question by my colleague from New York, I want to be sure we have the correct answer, General.

The decision would not be made by the Air Force but by the Secretary of Defense, am I correct in that?

General LEMNITZER. The decision on what, sir?

Mr. RIEHLMAN. On the assignment of the role and mission of each one of the Services after they had finished their basic research and it came to the development of a new project, that wouldn't be decided by the Air Force, would it?

General LEMNITZER. In the field of this particular directive, that is on space systems, it would not. It would be decided by the Secretary of Defense. I thought that was clear in the directive.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. I didn't think you gave that clear answer.

General LEMNITZER. I am sorry. I may not have understood the question.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. This rests with the Secretary of Defense, not the Secretary of the Air Force?

General LEMNITZER. It rests with the Secretary of Defense.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. If there should be any change in the communications program that the Army has at the present time, the Air Force would have no jurisdiction over it; it would be a matter to be decided by the Secretary of Defense?

General LEMNITZER. By the Secretary of Defense, that is right.
Mr. ANFUSO. That is your interpretation, is that correct?

General LEMNITZER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANFUSO. That the Secretary of Defense would still make the decision and not the Secretary of the Air Force? General LEMNITZER. Yes.

I never had any other impression, Mr. Anfuso.

Mr. ANFUSO. I was recalling testimony given to us that it was interpreted by this witness, who testified:

Yes, research would be left to the three branches, but when it comes to development and procurement, then the Air Force steps in.

General LEMNITZER. I think we are getting mixed up a bit here between space projects and programs and research and development in general.

The CHAIRMAN. We are going to release the General here.

At 11 o'clock we have another witness.

Mr. Fulton.

Mr. FULTON. To clear up the record, I don't believe we should limit the Army just to the battle field and communications. I am sure you do not intend for the Army to give up the Advent program, the satellite program, 22,300 miles out. That is hardly a battle field. General LEMNITZER. Advent was one program in which I had particular interest in.

Secretary Gilpatric has testified before this committee that there is no intention of taking the Advent program away from the Army. Mr. FULTON. We are not going to make the rule of limiting the Army solely to weapons usable immediately on a battle field?

General LEMNITZER. I was directing that answer to the general area of research and development, and not specifically to space systems.

Mr. FULTON. Another point that I think we should make clear is that you have opposed unauthorized leaks, but there are no authorized leaks, are there?

General LEMNITZER. I think they are contradictory terms.

The CHAIRMAN. General, we want to thank you very much for coming here. I am sure I speak for everybody on the committee. We have confidence in you and the great job you are doing for the United States and for our military establishment.

We appreciate your courtesy in coming here. I am sure you are busy.

At this time we are going to release you from the committee.
Thank you.

General LEMNITZER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Before you get away, General, the press has requested me to find out whether or not it would be possible to make copies of that short statement that you made, if the committee could make a few copies for the press.

General LEMNITZER. I would be glad to. I didn't prepare it as an opening statement. In order to put my thoughts in proper order and sequence, I made an outline. That is what I used in making my opening remarks.

The CHAIRMAN. If you or one of your aides could turn that

over

General LEMNITZER. I will have it made in the committee's office and turned over to the press.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee can make it right here for the press.

Gentlemen, that concludes the hearing that we have had on the directive, the scope of the directive.

I think the hearing has accomplished a great deal of good. (Whereupon, at 11 a.m., the committee proceeded to other business.)

APPENDIX

History of the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Organizational outline and reference guide

Remarks