Mr. MOELLER. That still doesn't answer whether it will be obsolete before it will be ready for use.

Secretary CHARYK. We wouldn't feel it would be important if we felt it would be obsolete.

The CHAIRMAN. Furthermore, the offshoot from that, which would be the trisonic transport, would be usable, a 2,000-mile-an-hour plane, would be usable over a long period of time, I would assume.

Secretary CHARYK. We feel the supersonic transport is just a natural growth in the whole development of the aviation industry. The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you this: At this time do you think there is danger of nuclear bombs in orbit?

Secretary CHARYK. That technical capability certainly exists, or will exist in the very near future.

The CHAIRMAN. Do we have a project of that sort?

Secretary CHARYK. We do not have a project of that sort.

The CHAIRMAN. Does anybody else have a project of that sort? Secretary CHARYK. I wouldn't know, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a capability, isn't there?

Secretary CHARYK. The technical capability is certainly there. The CHAIRMAN. We have, of course, no defense against that? Secretary CHARYK. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the Air Force changed its position since last year with respect to the assignment of a mission in space? Your position is substantially the same?

Secretary CHARYK. I don't think our position has changed.

Mr. FULTON. If the Chairman will yield? There is one basic change in strategy here. I have never yet heard the Air Force this morning use the word "aerospace."

Secretary CHARYK. This was certainly not deliberate.

The CHAIRMAN. You did testify, it seems to me, last year about a space plane; that is, a plane that would take off from air and move into space with equal facility. Would you comment on that?

Secretary CHARYK. I made a brief reference to that in my statement, Mr. Chairman. We are continuing an active program in those technical areas that are essential to such a system. The problems primarily lie in the propulsion area and in the materials area. We have, I might say, made substantial progress in the propulsion area during this past year. This work is continuing.

The CHAIRMAN. You have a materials research program? Secretary CHARYK. We have a materials research program, both in our basic efforts and in our applied research efforts.

The CHAIRMAN. ARPA has a materials program too, I believe, all the services have?

Secretary CHARYK. I think basic research in materials is supported by a large number of agencies and departments of the Government because it is an area that is fundamental to the interests of them all. The CHAIRMAN. What is the status of the Trevor Gardner report? General SCHRIEVER. That is a study group that was established at my request, as commander of ARDC, to study our present space programs from a technical point of view. We hope the committee will provide us with some additional thinking and guidance as to the areas which appear to be most promising and fruitful in the period 5 to 10 years from now, or 5 to 15 years from now.

The committee should report to me about the first week in March. The CHAIRMAN. Will this committee have a copy of that report when it is available?

General SCHRIEVER. I will have to submit it first to the Secretary of the Air Force. It will be classified. So I presume it will be up to the Secretary of the Air Force to make a decision on that. These reports generally have been made available in some fashion.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you convey our interest in it to the Secretary? General SCHRIEVER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In reference to the B-70, is NASA having any part in that program; and if so, what is the part NASA is playing in it?

General SCHRIEVER. Is this to me?

The CHAIRMAN. Whoever can answer it.

General SCHRIEVER. NASA, of course, has always, back from the old NACA days, played a part in all of our advance development work. Whereas I can't answer you in detail, much of the wind tunnel work and the advance supersonic work has been done in conjunction with NASA, I don't recall the exact number of hours of wind tunnel testing to date, but it is in the thousands. A great deal of this has been done in NASA tunnels. This is not the same kind of a program as the X-15, where there is, you might say, a joint conduct of the program. But NASA is working with the Air Force in the normal manner in the development of this airplane.

The CHAIRMAN. Is your working relationship with NASA satisfactory?

General SCHRIEVER. It is completely satisfactory. I think that we had some growing pains at first when NASA was first created in the present image. During the past year our relationships—at least from my level-and I think this is true at the higher levels has been extremely good.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Teague.

Mr. TEAGUE. Mr. Secretary, would you make some comment on the progress being made in space medicine? I get the impression from talking to some of your people that they don't get the recognition they should in your whole space program.

Secretary CHARYK. The life sciences area is an area that is under active study by the Aeronautics-Astronautics Coordinating Board at the present time. A special group has been established to look at the total life sciences program, and to insure that we have a wellordered and coordinated program in this important field, and are making maximum use of the capabilities and resources which exist in this country.

I believe that this special group has met two or three times. I would certainly anticipate that as a result of their deliberations and as a result of their consideration of the plans and programs throughout the Department of Defense and NASA, that there would emerge a strong coordinated total effort in this area which makes the best use of the facilities and capabilities that we have.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miller has a small question.

Mr. MILLER. Following that, Mr. Secretary, the Army has long recognized there is an application of the so-called "soft" sciences, psychology and other things, studving some of these things. Is the Air Force doing anything in this field?

Secretary CHARYK. This is one of the areas of research effort within the Air Force. Perhaps General Wilson could provide some further details as to the scope of this effort.

(The biography of General Wilson is as follows:)

LT. GEN. ROSCOE C. WILSON, USAF

Roscoe Charles Wilson was born in Centralia, Pa. on June 11, 1905. On graduating from the U.S. Military Academy in June 1928, he was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Regular Army. In September he began flying training at Brooks Field, Tex., and in November 1929 he was awarded his wings at the Advanced Flying School at Kelly Field, Tex., and transferred to the Air Corps. General Wilson's first tactical assignment was to the 1st Observation Squadron at Mitchel Field, N.Y. In July 1932 he began his service in the technical and scientific fields when he entered the Air Corps Engineering School at WrightPatterson Field, Ohio. Graduating a year later, he was assigned to the Aircraft Branch as the project officer on the B-15 (forerunner of the B-17) and the B-19. He returned to the U.S. Military Academy in June 1937 as an instructor in science (then called natural and experimental philosophy).

Entering the Air Corps Tactical School in May 1939, the general was graduated a year later. He returned to West Point for 1 year and then was reassigned to Wright-Patterson Field for duty in the Experimental Engineering Section. In February 1942 he joined the Engineering Division of the Air Materiel Command at Wright Field.

Transferred to Air Force Headquarters the following January (1943), General Wilson was assigned to the Office of thte Assistant Chief of Air Staff for Materiel, Maintenance, and Distribution. On June 1, 1943 he was appointed AAF Project Officer to support the Manhattan Engineering Division. In this post he was one of the first officers involved in the development of the atom bomb. He chose the site of the first test (Alamogordo).

In December 1944 General Wilson was named chief of staff of the 316th Bomb Wing at Colorado Springs, Colo., and participated in the campaign against Japan when the wing moved to Okinawa.

In August 1945 the general returned to Air Force Headquarters where he served in a succession of staff assignments: Office of the Assistant Chief of Air Staff for Materiel and Supply, the Office of the Deputy Commander of the Air Force, and Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Research and Development. General Wilson was designated in July 1947 Deputy Chief of the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project. The military agency was responsible for atomic weapons. In this post he had the additional duties of Air Force representative to the Military Liaison Committee between the Defense Department and the Atomic Energy Commission and a member of the Committee on Atomic Energy to the Research and Development Board. Named Assistant Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations, for Atomic Energy, in February 1950, the general was transferred from the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project to Headquarters, USAF. General Wilson continued to serve as Air Force member of the Military Liaison Committee and Research and Development Board.

In October 1951 General Wilson was designated commandant of the Air War College at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.

Going overseas in May 1954, the general became a tactical commander when he assumed command of the 3rd Air Force in the United Kingdom. He was given the additional duty on November 1, 1956, of chief of the Military Assistance Advisory Group for the United Kingdom.

In July 1957 General Wilson returned to the United States. On August 1, 1957, he took up duties in the scientific and technical field when he was assigned as Air Force member, Weapons System Evaluation Group, Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Research and Development).

On July 1, 1958, he was assigned as Deputy Chief of Staff, Development, Headquarters, USAF, and promoted to temporary lieutenant general. In this post he is responsible for the research and development program of the Air Force. His decorations include the Legion of Merit with two Oak Leaf Clusters. He is rated a command pilot and senior aircraft observer.

General Wilson and his wife, Elizabeth, have two sons.

PROMOTIONS

He was promoted to 1st lieutenant (permanent) February 1, 1934; to captain (permanent) July 9, 1938; to major (temporary) February 1, 1941; to lieutenant colonel (temporary) January 5, 1942; to colonel (temporary) March 1, 1942; to major (permanent) June 9, 1945; to colonel (permanent) April 2, 1948; to brigadier general (temporary) April 10, 1948; to brigadier general (permanent) January 27, 1950; to major general (temporary) August 11, 1950; to major general (permanent) April 7, 1954; lieutenant general (temperary) July 1, 1958. STATEMENT OF LT. GEN. R. C. WILSON, USAF, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, DEVELOPMENT, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

General WILSON. The Air Force has been concerned for a number of years with the application of "soft" sciences-notably, economics, sociology, psychology, and political science-to military problems and to national defense in general. Our concern in this area led us to work with the Rand Corp. some years ago. The amount of the effort today is about $10 million throughout the Air Force. This is a very substantial effort. Our research is conducted principally by the Rand Corp.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Mr. MOELLER. General Schriever, last year, or the year before, you expressed considerable concern about general publicity of our space programs. I think you intimated also some vital information, breakthrough information, had gotten into the hands of people into whose hands it should not be gotten. Are you still plagued with this sort of problem today?

General SCHRIEVER. I don't recall that my concern was in that framework.

Mr. MOELLER. You very definitely stated that you thought we were a little bit too loose with publicizing things that were going or in our space program.

General SCHRIEVER. I don't recall that. To the contrary, I felt that in some cases that we were not giving out enough data leading to a lot of speculation, which did us more harm than good. For example, we can't hide a missile launch at Cape Canaveral. I felt that the policies in the early days with respect to our missile launchings was not very enlightened. I think there has been a great deal of improvement in this in the past several years. I think the press has been given more adequate information that reduces the degree of speculation, and I think it is more helpful. We need to give the American public certain information.

Mr. MOELLER. I am not thinking so much of the American public. Specifically, it was stated in one of our hearings that a portion of the information of our guidance systems had gotten into the hands of the Soviets, that we had something quite unique prior to their getting this information.

General SCHRIEVER. I did not make that statement, I am sure. I don't have any information or knowledge of this.

Mr. MOELLER. I am sure it took place in this committee.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Fulton.

Mr. FULTON. We were speaking of the advances made during the last year. Then the question had come up of communications. I don't think we should leave the record without a comment that the Advent system of the stationary satellites of the Army is one system

of communications, and that there is still in all the services, research, development, testing, and evaluation of many communication systems. Another point is that, as far as advances are concerned, I think the Air Force should certainly be complimented on the fact that they have, in the first week of October 1960, integrated and put into operation the facilities, the ballistic missile early warning system with NORAD out in Colorado. So we now have a much stronger defense in this country, simply through the integration of communications with ourselves and Canada and I don't know how much detail I am allowed to go into-with at least Greenland, with a central control for the whole of this whole continent. Isn't that a fact? Would you comment on that, General?

General WILSON. It is difficult to comment in an open hearing. What you have said is absolutely true. This has been a very real problem. Communications is the heart and soul of a military operation. The nearer we can come to integrating communications systems, the nearer we will come to having effective military weapons. This year we have made great progress in this area.

Mr. FULTON. You have made great progress, and especially when you brought in-I don't know how much-when you have integrated with Colorado, the Headquarters Command, these ballistic missile early warning stations; isn't that correct?

Then the Navy, too, has been making tremendous advances. For instance, picking up a signal in the Pacific from Maryland through the ionosphere. It is a tremendous new development which should be given a part, and a prominent part, in the development of communications by the services in the last year; isn't that correct?

General WILSON. That is correct, sir. I do think we should recognize the fact that this is a new technique and not perfected. It shows tremendous promise. Of course we are all extremely interested in it.

Mr. FULTON. Even the technique of the Navy, and the general field of ion emission of missiles, on tracking them and watching them is a tremendous communications advance. Isn't that another

General WILSON. Correct.

Mr. FULTON. The use by the Navy of the Moon as a stationary satellite so they can pick up the reflections of a missile going off most anyplace in the world, depending on where the Moon is, and pick up the reflection off the Moon, is quite an advance, isn't it?

General WILSON. Yes. The Navy, and the other services, have combined and developed three different techniques of this nature. They are still techniques. They are not military systems, but they have extreme promise.

Mr. FULTON. Throughout the services we do have communications work being done on research and development and on testing, and we have new systems coming up. It isn't just the one Advent system? General WILSON. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. In your work, General, in reference to communications, is the Air Force considering the possibilities of utilization of private industry in reference to developing communications?

General WILSON. We must, sir, use all of the devices available to us. This matter of communications is highly complex and extremely expensive. We have some ideal systems we would like to put into effect, but we simply can't afford it. We must use everything we have at hand.